An Interview with Karen O

Having been to sold-out shows with Karen O and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs in NYC, Oslo, and Melbourne, I was also present at a half-filled venue in Portland, Oregon.

Despite the obvious disappointment, Karen O managed to make us appreciate the moment rather than focus on who wasn’t there.

She actively looked for individuals who weren’t dancing, who were out of sync, or those who were underutilized, and made them part of the show. Ultimately, we the crowd were the anomaly that night.

Karen O is a unique performer, not only engaging with the larger audience, but also the individual pieces that make it up. She understands that these moments of spontaneity, life, and emotion are rare, and so she invites the public to join her.

Rather than a polite request, it is an imperative to join in – if you wait for an invitation, you’ll miss out.

When Karen and I had our conversation over the phone while she was at her residence in LA, the interview’s formality felt somewhat uncomfortable as we were accustomed to a much more casual manner of interacting.

It took us a bit of time to loosen up, and eventually we discussed music-related vulnerabilities, tribulations, and whims, but more than anything, we discussed clinging to an immense hope.

— Carrie Brownstein noted

The thoughts and ideas of the individual can be powerful tools of exploration, creativity, and expression. It is through them that one can discover who they are and what they want to do in life.

By engaging in the act of self-reflection and self-discovery, an individual can find their own path and make decisions that will benefit their life and the lives of those around them.


CARRIE BROWNSTEIN: For how many years have you been a resident of Los Angeles?

KAREN O: It was in the beginning of February 2020 when I relocated to this area, just prior to the Grammys ceremony.

CB: So you guys were nominated for the Grammys? Did you actually go to the award show? Was it a surreal experience for you?

KO: That was an unbelievable experience. We hadn’t discussed the chance of being nominated in the slightest, it was not something on our minds. On the day the nomination was announced, I was at home in Closter, NJ, and it had already been a strange day. I was at the doctor and my blood wasn’t flowing as fast as it usually does.

CB observed that the output rate was sluggish?

KO: Inserting the needle into their right arm didn’t go as quickly as planned, so the medical team decided to tap a vein on their left arm, which was incredibly disruptive.

CB: Things cause me to faint.

KO: Yeah, yeah. So, they first drew blood from my left arm, but the flow was slow. Thus, they decided to go back to my right arm to draw the blood. [ Chuckles. ]

CB expressed their displeasure.

KO: That experience was the start of my journey. I returned home and I was feeling light-headed and off-balance when I got the call about the nomination.

Having been tricked previously, I was truly convinced this was just another prank. In my mind, it was impossible to comprehend.

Since the Yeah Yeah Yeahs have been getting a lot of media attention since the start, it could give the impression that they have been around for a while. However, only one full album has been produced by them.

KO: Definitely, it feels like that. It looks like there is an increasing speed in which everything is moving, particularly when it comes to the span of a band’s success. It appears that social trends are progressing more rapidly than ever before.

Thus, our existence since 2000 is not a long time for many other bands.

CB: Bands such as the Kaiser Chiefs and the Killers, ones that seem as if they just appeared out of nowhere, can be compared.

KO observed that, compared to groups that have existed for eleven or twelve years, everything moves so quickly that it can feel like it’s quickly diminishing, which is absurd.

It is a struggle to remain up-to-date in my listening habits as a music fan.

KO: Agreed. The most worrisome thing to me is the tendency that goes along with how quickly this society is moving forward.

There is a real lack of faith in the present. I feel bad about the way things have gone with us, especially around 2002 and 2003. New York City had something truly special and exciting happening, and I would let myself appreciate it yet also be unsure if it was authentic or not. I was self-conscious and aware that it wouldn’t last. My biggest regret is my inability to just be there, to enjoy it for what it was.

People were labeling it as a movement and I was wary of anything connected to something that felt real.

CB posits that the modern inclination to document every second of life means that people are missing out on the experience of simply living in the moment. The urge to capture a moment on a camera phone or to post it online is detracting from the enjoyment of the event.

KO: I went out to Tower Records and purchased some records recently. It seems like not many people go out to buy records anymore, doesn’t it?

I completely failed to remember that people no longer purchase physical records; it completely slipped my mind.

KO expressed that the current technological period is huge and transitional and it freaks them out a little bit.

They recently purchased four albums, three of which are oldies: Roy Orbison’s Love Songs, Lesley Gore’s Greatest Hits, and Dusty Springfield’s Dusty in Memphis. This made them feel as if there was nothing exciting going on or worth buying. The tragedy of this feeling is that they cannot go see these artists perform live.

I’m in Las Vegas.

KO: [Chuckles] Yeah, like in Vegas or a dinner show. There is nothing as gripping as experiencing a band live at the moment. It is a tragedy that so many people let these groups pass them by.

After the fact they may think: “Oh, that album is actually pretty good.” But they would have already gone their separate ways or stopped playing that album. It is depriving yourself of something great. It is tough to do that nowadays which is really sad.

Many people yearn to have experienced bands such as Minor Threat or Black Flag in person in their heyday. However, CB suggests that one should take advantage of live shows as they happen now and appreciate them for what they are.

KO: Yes, you should go to shows now! That’s the idea. If I have to be sneaky and conniving like a politician just to make sure people are enjoying us and taking in the moment, then I’m willing to do it – no matter what it takes. I’m willing to be completely immoral about it if I must.

II. Frequently I regret having expressed my fondness for someone to whom I am attracted.

Do you find that you are able to be fully immersed in your performance when you are on stage?

KO: Absolutely, I’m completely present. It can be a bit uncomfortable at times. I don’t keep myself at a distance when I’m performing. Instead, I give everything I have to the crowd in order to get them involved and out of their detached state.

That’s why it’s emotionally and physically draining. I feel like I’m the one who has to make up for a generation of nonbelievers.

Those who did not join in.

KO: Constantly striving to gain approval and convert audiences.

Have you ever experienced playing in front of an audience where it felt like you were in a film?

KO: Indeed.

When that happens, does your focus shift inward towards yourself and the other band members Brian Chase and Nick Zinner? Is there a barrier that forms between you and the crowd?

Sometimes I don’t slip into a robotic mode, instead I focus on the present. It then becomes a game for me to entertain myself. I can take a cheeky attitude, even in the face of an audience. I will pretend they are not there, but only to make them feel powerless.

I am always engaging with the audience, even if it isn’t obvious. I am continuously trying to interact with them.

CB: I had the occasion to take a look at Nick’s I Hope You Are All Happy Now and its amazing collection of photos of his audience. From afar, everyone looks the same, but up close, the differences between the people become apparent.

At times when I’m performing, I find myself gazing at an individual in the crowd and wondering about their life.

Do you ever question: “Who is that person right there? Why are they giving me that unamused look, or why are they laughing?” Do you have the ability to have constant reflections while you are playing, or do you feel like you are somewhere else?

KO: Rather than daydreaming about a random person in the audience, I usually make use of them.

There’s usually someone who doesn’t care about the reactions of the rest of the crowd and it’s very genuine. I’ll go up to them and ask their name and then dedicate a song to them and it will have a great effect on my performance. These individuals are not always at the front, they can be in the back and still be going wild.

When performing, do you find it more natural to communicate with your audience or do you prefer to meet them after the show? You certainly seem to be more at ease offstage compared to when you’re on it. Which interaction do you prefer?

Definitely, I favor the moments while I’m playing. It’s like a whirlwind or something where both of us are in this similar atmosphere. I believe that’s more important in a few ways than running into them outside of that experience.

Even so, I really enjoy speaking to admirers and spending time with the fans. It’s only that–I’m sure you guys have this too–all the young devotees, they don’t really comprehend the line or they don’t really think about the line between being mindful and then just needing a piece of you.

CB expressed that it can be awkward to be confronted by an individual who has a preconceived notion of who they think you are based on your lyrics or onstage persona. He questioned if there have ever been times when he felt like he was not living up to their expectations.

KO: Absolutely. One of the major motivations behind this is that we have been in the same position before.

We have been the avid followers.

KO reflected on how foolish they felt for wanting to talk to someone they had a special fondness for.

They asked themselves what they expected to gain from it, only to realise that it was an unrealistic hope that the person would become their best friend, blow them away with their words or even change their life.

KO then concluded that this person was not particularly interested in talking to them.

I totally concur. Nowadays, there are particular famous people I would never wish to encounter, some musicians or authors I greatly admire. I’m fearful that if the experience went poorly, it could damage the way I listen to their music.

Is your persona only meant to be used while performing, or is it also a shield to guard yourself?

I’d say that my stage persona is the most important aspect. It isn’t fake, but is a representation of my more passionate, angry, sexual and exposed side. It’s an exaggerated version of that.


CB: Could you explain the approach you take when writing lyrics and melodies for Nick’s songs? Are the tracks polished before you add your voice and tune, or do you modify the music with your own vocal and melody?

KO: The way we compose our music has definitely undergone multiple alterations since we initially began. It has become complicated to sync up our ideas lately. Before, it was much easier.

The ideal way to craft a song for us currently is to begin with either a drumbeat or a bass line. This is something we’ve only recently begun to do.

Do you find yourself being more critical of yourself than in the past? Is there an increase in self-editing?

KO: Absolutely. Nick and I put in so much effort touring, that it’s fundamental for us to get along and feel at ease with each other like mates before we can make music and not be overly judgemental.

It’s strange, Nick and I can become strangers after some time, when we are just doing all the touring and not creating music. The only way we can collaborate and write music together is to restore our friendship. Then I am confident that we will be able to write together.

CB inquired if the physical landscape of the band’s origin in New York had any influence on it, or if the connection between the three of them was what truly mattered.

They then asked if being geographically separated from his fellow band members Chase and Zinner changed the dynamic of the group in any way.

KO said when they were all living in New York and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs started, they were twenty-one and absorbed in the nightlife and music scene.

They were tapping into the frenetic street energy, but as the years passed, they had to look inward and rely more on their internal feelings.

This led to the second half of their Fever to Tell album, with songs like “Y Control” and “Maps.” Now, at twenty-six, KO feels older and believes their age will shape the way they write going forward.

Do you have a close connection to the New York music scene? And if so, is it hard to be away from it? As you age, you might not require the same type of assistance that you used to; the help may come from diverse sources now.

KO: It was nothing like the late seventies, when everyone was eating at the same eatery.

But we had close ties with certain bands, such as Liars, and then a bunch of Brooklyn bands, and also with multiple clubs as well as their owners, and simply people who were a part of the scene.

That scene is no longer. A fair amount of individuals have gone to Berlin, Los Angeles, and some to San Francisco. Growing up as an artist implies becoming less dependent on the music scene.

It isn’t necessarily more beneficial than relying on it, just different. We are simply doing our own thing now.

CB: Did you attend Oberlin College, and did Brian go there as well?

KO: Affirmative.

At Oberlin College, it is common to engage in political and ideological debate that can contrast with one’s ambition.

After leaving for New York City, a place where ambition and opportunities abound, did you feel that you were turning away from any of your Oberlin beliefs? Was there any opposition to your decision to go with Interscope, or did you feel comfortable with the choice?

KO: Brian and I were both heavily impacted by the idea of being anti-establishment. Especially Brian, since his musical inspirations were more radical than mine. My main concern was that if I conformed to the system, I would forfeit my artistic liberty.

I valued the other benefits of staying independent, but the main factor was my ambition to share our music with a larger audience. I believed that being on an independent label was unavoidable, but that has since been debunked.

Question: Is the organization Interpol being referred to?

KO mentioned Interpol, Arcade Fire, and Bright Eyes. What he realized, however, was that the distinction between major and indie labels wasn’t as clear-cut as it was portrayed. He chuckled at this thought.

No, of course not, CB.

KO: It was obvious to us, after looking at what other groups on independent labels had gone through, that both indie and major labels could be quite unfavorable.

We had a very rare situation, however, where we had the ability to dictate what we wanted to do, and have the ultimate say in the creative process. It was a fortunate position to be in.

It seems like the discussion about independent vs. commercial success is overplayed.

KO: Yes, indeed.

CB opines that the notion that one has “sold out” is simplistic; there is a new generation of people who take on this way of thinking, however it is more intricate than that.

KO: It’s completely ridiculous. It makes me very angry. To be blunt, Interscope has not altered how we create music.

IV. My goal is to thoroughly disrupt the system of how to make a record available to the public.

Do you ever wonder if your admirers will stay loyal to you when you try something different or switch up your style? Have you achieved a point of acceptance that allows you to proceed with your own direction, knowing that your fans will follow you?

KO believes that, although the band has been connected to the likes of The Strokes, Interpol, and The White Stripes, they have not been as widely embraced by the mainstream. Despite this, there are many people who have taken an interest in their music.

As they prepare for their next release, KO says that they will remain true to themselves and their ever-evolving sound, which may leave some fans disappointed. However, those who appreciate the band for their work and who they are, will stay with them as they progress.

Whenever your band releases a new album, there will be a lot of debates and conversations about it on the internet and in the press.

It seems like people tend to forget that they need to actually listen to the record to be able to make a judgment on it. So, why not just go to a show and hear it for yourself?

KO: Correct, indeed.

CB: We have finished our album and I’m feeling really pleased with it. I’m trying to ignore all the conjecture and minor details, and just focus on the fact that I’m content with what we achieved.

KO: It seems to be a shared sentiment in our current culture of consumption – people being hungry for something that can be quickly consumed and forgotten. This often leads to overlooking the finer details.

Additionally, the protocol for releasing a record is boring and tedious, and even the younger generations are not fond of it.

CB commented that it was a four month period of anticipation.

KO: Generating hype and then finally releasing it can be a letdown because people appear to pay more attention to the publicity than the actual material. The approach has overshadowed the tunes.

CB mentioned that because of the internet, everyone is able to give their opinion on music. They listen to the records to then post what they think on their blog.

He believes that it’s become more about being the first to have an opinion than having an individual relationship to the music. He wished that people could record an album and the label would just put it out right away.

KO: Is there anything more tedious and dull than going through the process of generating press for an album, releasing it, and then touring?

CB commented that the process of learning music can be isolating and abstract. They noted that while you’re doing everything but playing the music, you’re also talking about topics that you may not understand.

KO: My goal is to disrupt the traditional protocol of releasing an album. I loathe that process and believe it should be modified. By making alterations, it has the potential to modify people’s perspectives and make them less detached from albums and new music.

CB claims that detachment is the result of the unending conversations and talks; the detachment is not something that is inherent in the music itself, but rather something that is separate from it.

KO pointed out that it’s sad that we engage in self-sabotage when it comes to records and shows. He recalled a show they played in Mexico City where the kids rushed in two and a half hours before their set and were already enthusiastic.

He found the crowd to be the most sincere, loving, and receptive he had ever played to and stated he would do this every day if he could play to a crowd like that every night. He concluded that he wants to do whatever he can as an artist to try and move closer to that atmosphere.

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Miranda July is a multi-talented artist, who has a unique style – both unique and comforting. Her first feature film, Me and You and Everyone We Know, is soon to be experienced by a larger audience.

At the Sundance Film Festival, the movie won the Special Jury Prize for Originality, and also the Camera d’Or at Cannes. It is an accessible, yet artful work that is sure to please almost everyone. During a day of promotional interviews, we had a phone conversation.

Eli Horowitz’s words:

I’m not sure how to go about these matters, so I’m giving you a few choices, alright? I’m sure you have plenty of experience in this, so I’ll let you decide.

Miranda July expressed agreement.

BLVR: Well, I had a few questions planned out, but they were sent off in the mailbox while I was mailing some postcards. Clearly, my focus was on the mailbox and I’m not sure what happened. So I re-made them from my memory. Therefore, the first choice I have is to ask real…

MJ wondered what the inquiries were.

BLVR:That’s right, great queries. Or at least semi-decent, you know, such as: “Would it be possible to trace a connection between the Big Miss Moviola project and your own work, leading up to your current film?”

MJ concurred.

BLVR: Another possibility is to ask questions like, “What do you think about the notion that the last scene with the son implies a certain idea, even though I had the idea that it might be like something else?”

MJ confessed to not being very good at answering questions like the one presented.

BLVR queried whether the second kind of task was more difficult?

MJ identified those projects which had a great deal of theoretical basis.

BLVR: Another idea is to ask, “Did you happen to listen to the latest release from Sleater-Kinney?”

MJ reported seeing them two nights prior.

BLVR inquired to know the result of the matter.

MJ: The experience was positive. Whenever I view Sleater-Kinney, it reminds me of my maturity, and it honestly makes me feel somewhat aged.

BLVR: This new album is vastly different from what has come before it.

MJ commented that the album was impressive and made them feel hopeful. He then proposed that the other person should do their required amount of work.

BLVR: We’ll start with that type and then move to the other ones–Excellent, just right.

MJ affirmed.

BLVR: Here’s my question: You have experience with many different forms of art, but you decided to make this project a film, which is fairly conventional. Can you tell me the advantages and disadvantages of taking this approach?

MJ said that, in his opinion, he would be able to work in all sorts of mediums for a long time, but the one he was discussing required permission from someone else.

BLVR asked if the reasons for the decision were solely financial and logistic in nature.

MJ commented that the limitation they imposed on their art was intentional, because they were interested in conveying complex, enigmatic elements through tangible means.

This medium, they added, seemed suitable for that task. Furthermore, they noted that their abstract pieces have become even more so as a result of their narrative-driven works.

Additionally, they mentioned that they feel more liberated when creating performances, even if it means letting go of the narrative aspect.

BLVR: To travel in two directions.

MJ affirmed affirmatively.

Did you ever feel the urge to do something wild while making this movie, but you had to keep yourself in check?

MJ remarked that they had hoped for things to return to a state of normalcy. They had allocated two days for additional shooting and it was due to other people’s enthusiasm that the peculiar stuff occurred during those days.

What were some of the items that were included in the end?

MJ commented that the Me and You Shoes were not as strange as some of his other creations.

BLVR: The act of engaging in physical affection with another through kissing.

MJ concluded that the film was more reminiscent of his own work than he had anticipated.

BLVR: Will it be daunting to keep producing these strange performances? If the acts go well, you could receive some positive reception. Will it be difficult to then return to a small theater production? Or will it be a welcomed change?

MJ: I am certain it is going to be awesome. It is not too odd that when you have a bit of authority, you can express your individual preferences even more. It is as if to say, “Ah, now I can really take this to the next level!”

Could people be willing to accompany you further?

MJ: Absolutely. I’d be ecstatic to have an audience of people who recognize me for my work in that movie.

BLVR: I was curious if the film contained any element of wish-fulfillment, even though it wasn’t autobiographical. The main character, played by you, had some similarities and shared some of the same artistic pursuits.

Especially during that first conversation between the protagonist and the shoe salesman, when they were walking down the street, I got the sense as if you were dreaming of what it would be like if the man in the store was a nice person and then what would happen?

MJ commented that it was a cinch to write their perspective since they had already gone over both sides of the argument in their mind many times. Still, they noted that it’s problematic when one is constantly trying to anticipate what the other person is thinking.

BLVR: However, you have the potential to compel them to do it!

MJ suggested to ensure the information was properly recorded.

BLVR: It’s clear that conversing with others is a reoccurring theme not just within the film, but during the production of the movie and in your previous works as well. It had a very youthful feel to it. Did you do something similar to that when you were a child, just for fun?

MJ reminisced about his childhood, recalling the cassette tapes he used to make that were only one-half of a conversation with blank spaces so he could respond to himself.

BLVR: How did you feel being alone then?

MJ: Had I been overlooked? Not in a legal sense. I had no recollection of it until I came across the recordings. When I listened to them, I was bewildered, since they were strange. The truly strange thing was that I was able to converse with my younger self.

BLVR: Were the conversations particularly interesting?

MJ claimed that the questions they were asked were quite dull and that they were pretty much the same as those they wished people would ask them. Consequently, they made up the answers about holidays they never really went on.

BLVR: It seems that this type of commonplace yearning is very common. I still have in my possession, a book from my childhood which reads, “My moniker is [blank]” and then, “My dream name would be [blank],” and then, there are other related questions.

The life I ended up conjuring up was incredibly dull. The only detail I can remember is that I wanted my name to be Joe Washington. I thought that was the most wonderful thing.

MJ expressed enthusiasm for the idea, encouraging to go for it.

BLVR claims that children have fantasies of both extraordinary circumstances as well as a mundane, pleasant, and dull existence.

MJ desired normality more than the environment they were in.

BLVR: Were you brought up in the city of Berkeley? Was it a typical experience of growing up in the town?

MJ mentioned that the house was filled with a peculiar set of people, not in the traditional hippie or druggie way.

It was a collection of people who were a bit on the edge, and her dad was helping them publish their books, which meant they had to stay at their house while they completed them.

BLVR: During that time, did you put on performances at 924 Gilman, the well-known, all-ages punk music venue in Berkeley?

MJ confirmed in the affirmative.

BLVR: How were those experiences for you?

MJ recalls having written a very conventional play back in his high school days. Not only that, he went as far as hiring actors to be in it. Even weirder, he even got an adult Latina female to portray himself.

Had you been conscious of the unorthodoxy of the situation?

MJ recently revealed to a friend about the situation two weeks ago and the friend was taken aback. This realization led MJ to understand that it was a peculiar situation.

BLVR: Did you consider yourself to be an adult Latina female?

MJ stated that the experience of being directed by a young teenager rehearsing in her attic was strange, yet once she made it clear that she was the one in charge, the attitude of the non-professionals changed. Apparently, they all had other occupations.

BLVR: Is there a link you recognize between the games you played as a kid and your artwork?

MJ mentioned that they strive to achieve a sense of liberty, constructing various parameters to make them feel liberated in their endeavors.

BLVR: What would be the difference between capital “A” Art and regular Art?

MJ stated that their dream existence consists of lounging at home, occasionally jotting down something, then going out to eat and self-pleasure. This placid lifestyle of pampering themselves is how they eventually end up with a screenplay.

BLVR mentioned that there are kids’ books which contain an array of ideas for activities to do on a rainy day, with around ninety-nine activities in total.

MJ: It’s true. As a partner, I often come up with ideas to help us out when the relationship is in turmoil. I say, “Let’s try something creative to make it better. We can get out the pens and draw a picture of how much one of us hates the other.”

BLVR: Is that effective?

MJ voiced their opinion: “Well…”.

BLVR: Not a match. “It would work out if he really got me.”

Definitely was the response from MJ.

BLVR: Is there anything else? Do I need to ask you to elaborate on something? Have you got a long list of interviews to do today?

MJ inquired whether there were approximately ten tasks to do, and then continued by asking if he should…?

BLVR expressed their concern that the other person might feel taken advantage of if they didn’t ask them certain queries.

MJ: I don’t think I’ll be taken advantage of.

BLVR: Affirmative.

MJ expressed their astonishment at the experience of communicating with another person, saying it felt like they were actually talking to someone.

BLVR suggested that they should do a few more actual ones, just in the event that it might be necessary, and they both agreed.

MJ pointed out that the time limit was two minutes.

BLVR: Eh, nevermind then. It’s not worth worrying about. We have a lot of great stuff going on.

MJ was certain that something could be made out of it, and they felt confident about that.

BLVR declared, “I can make it shine!”

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