An Interview with George Meyer

Meyer has taken me to the mountains in northern Los Angeles with the intention of finding an abandoned missile silo, though his directions were not very precise. 

We drove down Mulholland Drive until it reached its terminus, then proceeded on foot via a dirt path. After a few hours, it became evident that we were off the mark.

George Meyer is a highly acclaimed television writer of his time, in much the same way Doug Kenney was to The National Lampoon or Michael O ‘Donoghue to Saturday Night Live. While he didn’t create The Simpsons, he is widely regarded as the man behind its success.

Meyer has been with the show since the start, and he is respected as the mastermind of its celebrated satire.

Having heard of Meyer’s renown, I expected him to be huge. However, he was tall and slender, with an extremely gentle tone that made it seem like his words would dissipate into thin air.

His face lit up when he would tell his beloved Simpsons gags, though he never prided himself on coming up with them. Additionally, he was very fond of aged Botan Rice Candy, and he would happily give some away.

Meyer and I eventually locate the silo, though it lacks any missiles. A sign posted on the entry door features a Nikita Khrushchev quote: “We will bury you.” Meyer muses over the sign’s purpose: was it meant to encourage or frighten the personnel who once worked here? We have no answer.

Meyer leads us higher up the mountain, away from any sign of civilization. We can see coyotes in the distance, looking at us in a way that suggests a possible attack. We are expecting the worst, but, surprisingly, Meyer simply waves at them, as if they were acquaintances.

A satirist’s laughter at their impending death is likely inconsequential – does it mean anything? Probably not.

Eric Spitznagel states that some of life’s most profound moments are the ones we take for granted. We tend to move past these occurrences without taking the time to appreciate them.

The notion of a hobo being “all business” is something I find quite appealing.

Be aware that I am a dedicated follower of The Simpsons, a fact I am informing you of right away.

George Meyer apprehensively said, “Alright…”

QUESTION: I’m not exactly proud of this, but I’m the type of person who could easily spend hours analysing minor players such as Mr. Teeny, the smoking simian.

ANSWER: The ladies will be attracted to this.

I’m definitely not one of the crazy ones. Did you know there is a cult of worshippers of Ned Flanders in the south of England?

ANSWER: Good heavens! Is that really true?

QUESTION: Perhaps “cult” is a bit too hard of a term to use. These individuals are deeply spiritual and find pleasure in dressing just like Ned. Does it concern you that supporters take it all so profoundly?

GM has a fondness for the influence their creation has had on the public. Even casual watchers have a certain attachment to the show and its characters. Whenever the creators have deviated too far from the norm, it has caused a stir among the fans.

For example, when Maude Flanders was written out of the show, the viewers were very vocal in their distress. While GM can appreciate their perspective, as an artist, it is sometimes necessary to try new things and make changes.

Do people have a tendency to have expectations that are not reasonable, BLVR?

ANSWER: Absolutely. It appears they conceive that we have endless amounts of time and assets for each instalment, and that we’re capable of examining each topic from all possible aspects. In reality, the program is more like a hurricane surrounding us.

Not every joke can be spectacular. And if you thought you noticed an inconsistency, you are correct!

Do audience responses have any impact on you?

ANSWER: To be candid, no. It is not something that we consider frequently. We compose for our own pleasure, or for our companions who produce for different series.

Have we overlooked anything due to the fact that each episode is full of inside jokes?

The GM stated that the inside jokes within the show are quite evident for those who are paying attention. Examples include references to “golden showers” and “glory holes”.

During one period of time, the team had a “chloroform” running gag, whereby a rag soaked in the chemical was used to knock someone out without much point.

The GM admitted that sometimes they get obsessed with something, such as hobos, and that was reflected in the boxing episode with Homer fighting a hobo who kept turning to check on his bindle.

Ultimately, the GM revealed that these jokes are simply a way to entertain themselves at the expense of the viewers.

QUESTION: I have a soft spot for the “Tall Tales” episode’s train-hopping, bath-free hobo.

ANSWER: I was particularly fond of the internal joke that only those who watch the show were privy to. Lisa was in the middle of a conversation with a hobo and decided to give her own input.

He quickly retorted with the question, “Hey, who’s the hobo here?” and the script had a notation that said “[ALL BUSINESS]” and this made me chuckle. It was a hilarious concept that a vagrant would be “all business.”

BLVR expressed, “I’m not someone who would go around stabbing people who are homeless.”

ANSWER: “… I’m a travelling vocalist.”

BLVR & GM [ in harmony ]: “There’s nothing more satisfying than the hobo life, and I’m ready to stab someone with my blade.”

ANSWER: My goodness, you certainly were serious about being devoted to it.

QUESTION: Is it not a bit depressing?

Everyone has the same anxiety apart from dying or speaking in front of a crowd: that they have been the butt of a joke.

QUESTION: Let’s discuss Army Man. It was a lesser-known zine created in the late eighties with a few of your writing partners. [The print version of this issue includes a reprint of Issue #1 of Army Man.]

It has gained a near-mythic status in the comedy world. It is said that the core staff of the Simpsons was recruited directly from Army Man, not to mention other contributors such as Jack Handey, Ian Frazier, and Bob Odenkirk.

There is an abundance of silent admiration for what was essentially a black-and-white, photocopied newsletter that was distributed among a few hundred people.

GM admitted he had no clue how his magazine, Army Man, got so large. He was just looking for something to do while he lived in Boulder, Colorado, which isn’t exactly known for its comedy. Most people there don’t consider comedy a priority.

For GM, however, comedy was like air. The demise of the National Lampoon hurt him, as it was one of the only publications solely devoted to making people laugh.

Even Spy magazine, the successor of the magazine, had a different goal in mind. It wanted to be subversive and satirical, not just cause bouts of laughter. GM decided to make something that was only focused on provoking laughs, not really knowing what he was doing.

He even reprinted things without getting permission first. For example, his sister Nancy found a review of Cannonball Run II on her honeymoon in Hawaii, which he then stuck in the magazine. He likes to think Army Man was a combination of a legitimate publication and a careless, lawbreaking zine.

QUESTION: What brought you to Boulder? Wasn’t the bulk of the 1980s spent in New York, crafting content for David Letterman and Saturday Night Live?

ANSWER: I wasn’t a big fan of New York. I was feeling really upset with my girlfriend and the Saturday Night Live show so I thought it’d be beneficial to start anew and to re-discover what made life truly meaningful.

QUESTION: Could you tell me in detail what occurred? Was it a matter of you randomly selecting a location on a map?

GM said that they didn’t have much knowledge on Boulder other than the fact that it was home to a college, was near the Mile High Kennel Club, and had some decent record and book stores.

At the time, they were passionate about dog racing and chose the city as a means to get away from the New York atmosphere. This offered them a chance to heal and take the cynicism out of their work, or as they called it, “snark”.

QUESTION: [ Giggles ] Yeah, sarcasm.

GM believed that sarcasm and negative outlooks had become the go-to comic approach and that sincerity and originality were going to be the next major trend in comedy. Unfortunately, it appears they underestimated how popular cynicism actually is.

I must admit, I wasn’t expecting that. The Simpsons is recognized for its darker comedic style, and while it may not be blatantly cynical, it has a more pessimistic flavour than the average television show of this genre.

GM commented that the comedy to which he was reacting was too harshly critical. Instead, The Simpsons attempts to steer clear of that kind of approach, as it is not particularly clever nor is it inviting to the audience.

To illustrate his point, GM referenced Dana Gould, a Simpsons writer, and how he initially had difficulty connecting with the audience. A fellow comic then told him that the audience must first feel that the comedian likes them before they will like the comedian.

This is a very basic need that everybody shares, according to the GM.

Do you think it’s more about who’s delivering the message rather than the message itself?

GM commented that if people perceive a comedian as smug or spiteful, their sense of humour won’t be as appreciated. As an example, they mentioned Lenny Bruce, who wouldn’t have been as influential if he was solely an angry comic.

George Carlin, however, is able to get away with his comedy since the audience detects the genuine pain that he feels about the absurdity of the world.

QUESTION: Bill Hicks was a performer who was driven mostly by his fury and annoyance.

ANSWER: Despite being critical of the government, he was never sarcastic or arrogant. His anger was genuine, and not just an easy target. He was more authentic than many other political comedians, who tend to come off as calculated.

QUESTION: I don’t think highly of most political comics. I’m wondering when satire starts to be seen as propaganda? A lot of them appear to be using comedy to promote a particular viewpoint.

ANSWER: I prefer to keep people wondering what’s coming up. Prior to the ’96 election, we did a Halloween event with Bob Dole and Clinton being abducted by aliens. In the middle of the show, we had them both die from suffocation while in space.

After that, it would be nearly impossible to tell what our political views were.

QUESTION: It’s only now that I comprehend the dreadfulness of the act. You, in fact, murdered the sitting president.

ANSWER: To have a bit of fun, yeah.

QUESTION: Is there a moment or joke from the show that stands out to you? Do you have a particular moment or joke that you wrote that still makes you smile?

GM admitted that they don’t remember a lot of their work, so they try to release it and then move on in an attempt to stay fresh. The artist explained that the creative and archival sides of their brain don’t work effectively together.

To achieve their best work, they enter a trance-like state and the jokes they create have a more formulaic quality, yet lack the same level of craziness as when they hit their peak. GM was certain they wrote “Pray for Mojo” and asked if the listener remembered the line.

Didn’t the assistant of Homer utter those words right before expiring?

ANSWER: Indeed, it appears to be a eulogy for Western culture.

BLVR concurred with the sentiment.

ANSWER: A bloated, ruined corpse is brought to shore by the tide, coughing out its last gasp.

BLVR had an encouraging and patriotic sentiment for the children.

ANSWER: [ Amused ] I’m doing my best.

I bestowed my daughter with the name of ****Valentina Tereshkova, who was the first female to travel to space.

QUESTION: A lot of the Simpsons episodes credited to you often carry a theme. This theme is usually about characters abandoning a tradition or a belief. Homer stops attending church, Lisa’s faith in the political system is weakened, and Bart departs during Thanksgiving.

ANSWER: It is accurate to assert that I have a strong distrust of social structures and customs. Growing up Catholic, I eventually abandoned that faith, which was a difficult process since I had to admit that I had spent a massive portion of my life in vain.

It would be better for me to look back at my past with fondness, yet I cannot. I feel betrayed. I did not intend to be a radical. As a youngster, I followed the rules; I earned high marks in school and was an Eagle Scout.

I thought about all of this. Unfortunately, I eventually comprehended that these organisations did not really care about me.

QUESTION: The Simpsons cast is an example of characters that draw strength from their place in society. Principal Skinner, the Comic Book Guy, and Rev. Lovejoy, to name a few, rely on the authority of their positions to provide them with a sense of purpose. If they were to lose the social status they have, their existence would be severely impaired.

GM commented that life presents a challenge to everyone, and that if someone can believe they are a ruler in their own small world, it is only a way of adjusting to it.

The audience may query why they poke fun at Comic Book Guy, but it is only because they truly appreciate him and his kind. They themselves have that “know-it-all” attitude in some form or another.

Do you still have the same level of suspicion of organisations now that you are an adult? Has your outlook changed at all?

ANSWER: Indeed, however at times something may pass unnoticed. An organisation I have faith in is Conservation International, an association that strives to sustain biodiversity everywhere. I have gone from being a member in childhood to an observer in adulthood.

I am keen to stand on the sidelines before devoting myself. But the members of this particular group are so genuine, authentic and passionate. It is the only collective that I am truly passionate about at present. I have no devotion to my nation or to a religion.

I do, however, have a four-month-old daughter and that is a creed in its own right.

In what ways has becoming a father shifted your outlook on life?

GM admits to being worried about earthquakes now that they have a daughter. Having a child has brought an unexpected sense of optimism that they hadn’t experienced before. As a tribute to the first woman in space, they have called their daughter Poppy Valentina.

You accumulate souvenirs from the Russian space program, correct?

GM expressed an enthusiasm for the Russian space-propaganda posters, describing them as “stunningly beautiful,” and elaborating on how they depicted Yuri Gagarin and other figures in stirring and fantastical ways.

They also discussed how the Russians had suffered immensely throughout the century, yet still managed to get into space first and launch the Sputnik, beating the United States. GM went on to express shock that many people don’t even know of Tereshkova or Gagarin.

Do you envision that your daughter will have a fascination with space exploration?

ANSWER: [ Shrugs ] I’m unable to plan that far ahead, however, it could be nice. We heard the news that Neil Armstrong would be receiving an accolade in Los Angeles a few weeks ago and we took Poppy to the city to get a photo of them together.

We were attempting to think of who the strangest living person would be to have a picture with in the future. Neil was very kind and he remembered Valentina. It was peculiar to be so near him. He’s just a man, but it’s very special to be Neil Armstrong!

“It would not be difficult to come up with ten humorous remarks about Catholicism within the next twenty minutes.

QUESTION: So, you haven’t gotten married yet, correct?

ANSWER: Absolutely not.

QUESTION: You’ve probably been the most impressive advocate against marriage I’ve encountered. I can still remember Edna Krabappel’s words against marrying: “Most of you will only marry due to fear of being alone when you pass away.”

That statement truly shocked me when I heard it first. It kept me away from marriage for years. I was definitely afraid of being part of that joke. And you observe such matters too often. We all know people who have gone into marriages out of safety.

ANSWER: My parents are still together and appear to be content. Though, in my opinion, marriage is an awkward, unyielding, and outdated institution that is promoted as this perfect thing. It’s like the medical field creating the iron lung, then stating, “That’s it, we’re finished.”

Lots of men have difficulty with their fascination with other women and can’t comprehend why they are expected to be with the same person for the rest of their life. Marriage has a kind answer for them: “Quiet down, you self-centred whiner.”

It’s no surprise that men need to be persuaded into this unfavourable, one-sided agreement?

Would it be accurate to state that Homer and Marge’s marriage is a strong one, or is it based on apprehension? BLVR posed the question.

GM stated that, although Marge and Homer’s neuroses are complementary, and do help them function as a family, he does not believe that it is the greatest marriage.

He went on to note his surprise when people view an episode where Homer acts out, such as passing out drunk on Christmas or selling his family to Gypsies, and still think that it is a functioning marriage.

GM finds it astounding that people are able to project a positive view of the marriage even if it is not actually there.

QUESTION: Let’s use The Simpsons as an example of how popular culture critiques modern religion. Catholicism specifically gets the brunt of the criticism, as Homer has infamously declared it to be a faith “full of good intentions that never play out in real life.”

GM stated that their childhood was filled with difficulty as a Catholic, causing their “spring [to be] almost to the breaking point”. Even now, they are still trying to recover from this experience, and they have become a “thoroughly virulent atheist”.

QUESTION: Interesting. So, you have no faith in religion and yet it still plays a significant part in the stories presented by your characters?

The Simpsons is one of the scarce number of shows that bring up the existence of religion, a topic that is often avoided because it can be so controversial. Incredibly, the show has been able to include religious aspects in its storylines.

Fortunately, the Simpsons writing team does not have a great deal of highly religious personnel who, if it did, might cause many quarrels in the scriptwriters’ workplace.

QUESTION: What was the impetus behind your choice to become an atheist? Was it something you have only recently adopted, or have you held these beliefs for some time?

For the majority of my adulthood, I considered myself to be agnostic, however, [Simpsons writer] Mike Reiss gave me a hard time about it. He said, “Come on, just go for it. Become an atheist. No harm in trying it.” That’s when I realised that being agnostic was a bit too passive for me.

I can’t say for sure what the universe is about, but I don’t think it helps to assume there’s a deity behind it all. It has never been a solace to me that there is an ever-watchful eye in the sky.

Furthermore, I don’t agree with the animosity most religions have towards science, freedom, and especially individuality. The Dalai Lama however, I admire.

QUESTION: Going into that controversial area of religion on The Simpsons is a risky move. In many cases, television shows choose to stay away from religion, and for a valid reason. If one doesn’t have religion in their life, why bother bringing it up at all on a show?

ANSWER: Religion is a very intense topic, which makes it a great source for comedy. It’s much harder to make people laugh about something they aren’t interested in, like say, potholders.

I could easily come up with ten jokes about Catholicism in a short amount of time, and I think I’m drawn to this topic because I can be a bit daring without upsetting people’s more important things, such as their cars.

Do you think that religious beliefs play too great of a role in our culture?

ANSWER: Certainly. However, I also want to be respectful to those who have different views than me. I have some amazing friends who are religious and I would never think of them as being foolish. I do feel they should be able to pursue whatever brings them peace.

The only thing I’m saying is that it’s not something that resonates with me and I don’t want to pretend it does.

Though not all of us have experienced the kind of physical trauma depicted in Candide, we can all recognize the horrifying events described within it.

QUESTION: What has always been captivating to me about The Simpsons is how it is able to maintain a balance between despair and optimism. There was an episode early in the show’s run where Homer temporarily leaves the nuclear facility to take a job at a bowling alley.

Sadly, Marge ends up pregnant and Homer is obligated to go back to the job he despises. A lesser sitcom would likely have made this a basic moral tale. But you did not ignore the underlying sadness.

Just because he was willing to make a sacrifice for his family does not mean he was content with it. He still detests his job. He did the proper thing for his daughter and he knows it, but his life remains unfulfilled. You recognize that shred of hope without disregarding the hardship that surrounds it.

ANSWER: It’s essential to be sensitive to the struggles of others. To reject the reality that life can be harsh and unkind to many would be wrong and unjust. We all know those who attempt to find the silver lining in every situation. I’d love to be that person, yet I can’t seem to.

I usually take on a more Voltaire-esque viewpoint. By the way, if you haven’t read Candide in a while, it’s an incredible book. It offers a humour that no Shakespeare comedy can match.

QUESTION: Particularly if you relish public punishment and pirate-committed assault.

GM commented that Voltaire’s willingness to startle readers with sudden cruelty was something they could identify with. Even if they had not had their bottom hacked off or been violated by buccaneers, the experiences in Candide remain recognizable.

It was noted that the author managed to find the equilibrium between despondence and anticipation. GM has a tendency to be melancholic, yet to be genuinely comical, one must possess the traits of both Pangloss and Martin, the capacity to move between the two.

In the universe of The Simpsons, who can be said to be truly content?

ANSWER: People who are oblivious to their surroundings tend to have the most contentment in life, such as Chief Wiggum, who is rather pleased with his life despite his incompetence as a police officer. Similarly, Homer is cheerful because his knowledge that he is invulnerable makes him feel safe from any harm.

It could be assumed that Ned Flanders is content with his life.

ANSWER: It’s perplexing, isn’t it?

QUESTION: It’s incredible how this individual can remain so devoted to his faith in God and be so kind-hearted, while at the same time facing so much bad luck. His brother, Homer, endlessly takes from him.

The Leftorium he opened was close to going bankrupt. His home was annihilated by a tornado. His wife passed away due to a strange incident.

ANSWER: I see it as though we are testing him, similar to the biblical story of Job. He has managed to pass the test with flying colours, always staying loving and strong in a way that can be compared to Christ.

No matter how much Homer puts him through, he still finds another way to be forgiving. This is not a common thing to see in movies and television since it is so focused on revenge. Flanders is really breaking the mould.

He reads the Bible and does his best to live by it. Even though I am an atheist, he is still a very inspiring character to me.

QUESTION: Despite Ned’s success in overcoming obstacles, people like Frank Grimes have not been as fortunate.

ANSWER: [ Chuckles ] Indeed, it’s a shame for the blameless Grimes.

It’s undeniable that the unfortunate individual really had no grounds to be treated in such a harsh manner.

GM’s perspective was that, while Grimes certainly sinned by shining a light on the flaws of Springfield, it was necessary to “destroy” him in order to make a point. They took a certain pleasure in the destruction of someone so righteous.

It made the downfall all the more satisfying.

QUESTION: Doesn’t this strike a chord with you? It has been argued that Frank Grimes was a pivotal moment in The Simpsons. Before he arrived, there was a strong moral core to the show. It was full of sorrow, but people were fundamentally good.

After Grimes, though, there were no longer any repercussions. Characters no longer followed a collective standard of morality. Now, the bad outcomes often befall those who are good, and the foolish and wicked appear to be victorious.

An extended period of silence ensued.

ANSWER: We may have gone too far in our actions.

The pair erupted in laughter.

BLVR was satisfied by what they heard, that was all they wanted.

” I AM CERTAIN THAT ALL THOSE [WRITING SITCOMS] ARE GIVING THEIR BEST EFFORT. NO ONE IS THINKING, ‘ IT’S FINE IF I JUST CREATE SOMETHING OF POOR QUALITY AND HOPE THAT OTHERS WILL ENJOY IT. ‘”

QUESTION: Ever since the mid-nineties, there have been rumours of The Simpsons coming to an end. Nonetheless, it has still managed to keep going. In an episode entitled “They’ll Never Stop The Simpsons,” there was an allusion to the show’s potential immortality.

The lyrics stated that there were “stories for years” to come. Is it possible that The Simpsons will outlive us all? And if so, is that such a terrible thing? Will its reputation suffer the longer it stays on the air, as many contend?

ANSWER: Of course, if the shows are not enjoyable then we’d move on. But my impression is that it will be us who get tired of it before the viewers do. We need to invest more of our time into this strange little world and if there is nothing left to explore, we will know it. Let’s hope that’s not the case.

QUESTION: It seems that you have had some difficulty with farewells. You have gone through the cycle of quitting and coming back to The Simpsons for at least ten years.

GM declared that he was gradually leaving the show, by working only two days a week as a consultant. He didn’t want to exit abruptly, as it didn’t work out the last time he did it. The writers held a farewell party for him and gave him a silver brick as a token of appreciation.

GM admitted that it was difficult to depart The Simpsons. Occasionally he thought of doing something more underground – like Army Man or guerrilla filmmaking.

What motivates you to keep coming back?

ANSWER: A worldwide audience is within my reach. I can’t guarantee that my own content would be seen in Malaysia alone. My subscription network wouldn’t have the capability to reach that broad of an audience.

It’s extremely humbling to know that people from numerous countries and speaking varied languages are watching the show. I don’t know what it is that draws them to it, but it has left me in awe.

Wouldn’t it be pleasant to carry out something that was solely your own brainstorm?

GM shared that he had attempted to launch a few of his own projects without any success. Initially, he was disheartened about it, however, as he saw other people getting turned down, he began to understand that it wasn’t something he should take personally.

What he likes most about his current job at The Simpsons is that the toughest part is already over. Creating a new television show is one of the most difficult endeavours a writer can undertake. It feels like a baby attempting to crawl across a highway – it is a miracle if it succeeds.

GM admitted that he used to take pleasure in the failures of others, but he no longer thinks like that. He has realised that everyone is trying their hardest and nobody would be so careless to simply create a subpar show and hope that somebody likes it. Most TV writers do the best they can.

QUESTION: Very few have attained the level of success that you have. I feel like you don’t truly recognize what you have achieved. You have not wasted your potential like a lot of people do.

My significant other often hits me over the head whenever I consider leaving The Simpsons. She said something that really got to me when she stated, “No matter what you do afterwards, your life story is going to be introduced as ‘ Simpsons Writer.'”

It infuriated me at the moment, yet I accept that it is accurate.

QUESTION: It appears that a lot of comedy writers believe that they ought to be doing something more consequential or significant. Observe what happened to Doug Kenney.

Even though I cannot claim to understand his thought process when he leapt off the cliff, I get the impression that the act of being an excellent comedy writer did not quite fulfil him. It rang a bit empty to him.

GM has a hard time being proud of their work on the show. When first hired to write for The Simpsons , they knew their career could have gone in a different direction.

The immense success of the show was a moment of validation, but also made them arrogantly self-absorbed. GM was in an odd state, loving their job but also feeling ashamed. This resulted in suicidal feelings for a number of years.

QUESTION: What caused you to escape from that situation?

ANSWER: Through therapy, I saw a huge change. Yet, I found moments of insight in surprising ways. When I took a look at all the biographies in my bookshelf, I hadn’t noticed it before but it seemed like I had been trying to reinforce to myself that life is a struggle for everyone.

When I recognized that, it lightened some of the burden.

As you age, you come to the realisation that your setbacks and unsuccessful attempts are not unordinary.

Gaining maturity means understanding that no single person or group is controlling the world. The truth is that the planet is far more intricate than that. Even those in positions of authority are soon displaced. It took me a while to recognize that many of the restraints I fought against were not real.

Do you tend to view the world through a more positive or a more negative lens?

As a pessimist, I have taken great pains to add many layers of optimism. I am quite pleased with the results of my efforts.